June 20, 2012
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The problem with feminism
JDN 2456099 EDT 11:48.
Basically, the problem with feminism is that it’s too easy to call yourself a feminist. There’s no admission procedure, no criteria you have to meet.
I’ve even seen people list criteria for what makes a feminist, but here’s the funny thing: By all those lists, I obviously qualify—and lots of famous feminists don’t.
Valerie Solanas wrote a SCUM Manifesto in which she called for the extermination of men.
This person who calls herself the femitheist wants to castrate all men.
Then there’s the whole Feminist Sex Wars, where we had people like Andrea Dworkin literally arguing that heterosexual sex itself is inherently evil and must be abolished. More “moderate” (if we can call them that) sex-negative feminists argued that pornography and prostitution should be banned. (Some defined pornography as material that oppresses women, in which case there’s an awful lot of porn that wouldn’t even be considered “porn”.) There’s “cultural feminism” and “difference feminism” which reject what ought to be the fundamental axiom of feminism, namely the equality of men and women.
Much of this stuff is now called “satirical”, but it’s Poe’s Law: Satire is indistinguishable from fundamentalism. And if people had read the SCUM Manifesto and said “great idea!” I have little doubt that Solanas would have supported their efforts to implement it. (If you’re really writing satire, you make it clear, as Jonathan Swift did and Stephen Colbert does.) Dworkin has since denied the interpretation that all heterosexuality is coercive; but from the book it’s pretty clear that’s what she meant, and I took a Women’s Studies course where this was taken seriously as a “feminist view” to be considered.
There is even a debate in feminism about whether men can be feminists. This debate is considered mainstream, and again Women’s Studies classes ask you to discuss it as a serious question. This also is in violation of the fundamental axiom of equality, since it’s literally saying that some people aren’t allowed to do something because of their gender. (Frankly I can’t call it anything less than sexism.)
Now, if feminism had clear guidelines for what you must believe to be a feminist, none of this could possibly have happened. Solanas and Dworkin would say “I’m a feminist!” and actual feminists would say, “No, you’re not. You’re insane. You have nothing to do with feminism. You don’t even know what ‘feminism’ means.” But instead we have people saying things like “What does feminism mean to you?” which leads us into Humpty Dumpty’s world where words mean what you want them to mean.
This is why ultimately I can’t call myself a feminist, even though I would fit the standard definition. I believe in egalitarianism. I even believe that gender is a fundamentally problematic notion, and ought to be replaced by a continuum or else abandoned altogether. I am appalled that women still get paid 75% of what men make for the same work. I want the Equal Rights Amendment to be passed immediately, and think it should have been passed decades ago.
Maybe I’ve been spoiled by science. (Or maybe those of you who haven’t experienced the scientific community don’t know what you’re missing.)
See, in science, you don’t get to call yourself a scientist unless you’re actually doing science, and doing it correctly. If you start spouting nonsense about biology and calling yourself a “radical biologist”, actual biologists will reject your papers and write letters to the editor about how you’re not a biologist, you’re just a quack. There are no extremist ecologists—there are ecologists, who do ecology correctly, and there are non-ecologists, who don’t. There are no fundamentalist physicists (actually there a few physicists who are religious fundamentalists; but they’re not fundamentalists about physics.)
I often hear feminists say things like, “Any group has its extremists.” But no, actually, some don’t—scientists don’t have extremists.
What are scientists doing differently? We exclude people who do it wrong.
It’s that simple. When someone says something that contradicts everything science stands for, but calls himself a scientist, we say: “No, that guy is not a scientist. He’s a quack; don’t listen to him.”
But when someone says something that contradicts everything feminism is about, but calls herself a feminist, what do feminists say? “Well, she’s a different kind of feminist. Too radical for my taste.” Such feminist-quacks are almost always women, because feminists are afraid to repudiate anything a powerful woman says. This remains true even if she goes against everything feminism is about. (Look no further than the feminists who tongue-tied themselves over Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann. Yes, they have vaginas; no, they’re not on our side on this one.)
Either that, or I’m wrong about feminism, and it doesn’t actually believe in equality at all. The standard definition is false; it’s not “men = women” but actually “men <= women”. That would explain a lot, actually; it seems more plausible every time I hear another prominent “feminist” get away with saying something appallingly misandrist. In that case, we should just give up on feminism, and go back to the original project of Enlightenment rationalism: egalitarianism.
Comments (28)
As far as the wage gap goes, I think it’s a little more complicated than what many suggest. Here’s one explanation: LINK
Otherwise, interesting post. Re: science and feminist thought – Unless I’m mistaken, Richard Dawkins had the same beef with some of the feminists for trying to hijack legitimate science for their own sociopolitical agendas to the point where they would dismiss scientific findings that contradicted their feminist viewpoints. He pointed out how some of them dismissed contradicting claims as evidence of the “imperialist, patriarchal scientific” structure or something like that.
Feminism has the same root thinking as gay rights. That is, gender is not important.
Since gender is a basic part of human nature, both feminism and gay rights deny basic human nature.
And since human rights are based on human nature, both feminism and gay rights deny basic human rights.
Therefore they must both be totally rejected.
I consider myself a feminist, although, there are some things within the feminist movement that I don’t really agree with, like the porn issue. It bothers me when women say that all porn is terrible and demeaning towards women because I don’t think it is. Some of it, sure it is, but not all of it.
I think that feminism is about eradicating sexism against women and men. Let’s not be mistaken, though. Sexism towards women is something that has been and is still in many places legislated within the patriarchy. THAT’S the problem. Not that women are better than men. Not that men suck and should be oppressed, but that women should stop being oppressed. Many people hear that I’m feminist, and they automatically dislike me for whatever reason. I “hate men” and am apparently a lesbian, or want to be one, or something.. Which is absolutely absurd. Any social or political movement is going to have a few extreme people in it, that’s just how it goes. There’s nothing that I can do about one woman who thinks that men should be castrated, obviously all feminists do not believe this. I certainly don’t. That would be pointless, we need men, just as much as we need women.. Should one persons extreme views tarnish mine because we both use the word feminist? I don’t think so. I think people need to use their minds and logic to sort these people apart. There’s too much generalizing in the feminist community, it’s something that needs to stop.
You should check out Bell Hooks. I really enjoy her material and I feel she is an author that represents what feminism is.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - If you’re interested, I can point you in the direction of a pretty great logic & critical thinking course that’s free of charge.
@Saridactyl - I think the problem is the assumption that gender roles are a form of one-sided oppression, and that the patriarchy exists to serve men’s interests. That’s something that even moderate, more reasonable feminists believe.
@Saridactyl - Well, don’t worry, you have nothing to fear!
All of the feminists in this day and age that I know (it’s about… herrrmmm, sixty percent of the women) have absolutely NOOOOO problems with porn whatsoever…
Which, ya know… is a total contradiction based on the way feminists think, but hey, whatever… The point remains, it’s scarce now days to find an advocate against porn. Most of them are all okay with it. I’m not a feminist (AT ALLLLLLLLLLL) and I say “Hey, porn is bad” and I get completely railroaded where-ever I go… and funnily enough? All of the ones who ran me over? Women! HAHAHA
Feminism is based on gross lies and generalizations. Their ways of handling themselves, their families, and others is absolutely barf worthy revolting in this day age, ESPECIALLY the way they treat their boyfriends, husbands, etc.
I’ve had people tell me that all it takes is for me to believe that women should be paid the same amount as men in a job. – Well, based on TRUTHS, and FACTS, I do not. The TRUTH is that MEN are still the ones who take on the more dangerous jobs. The truth is that MEN are still the ones who will forgo the office with a view, and no air conditioning, working all the extra hours, etc (Not all of them, but on a whole) the truth is that WOMEN still demand all the maternity leave and benefits, and cost companies far more to work for them because they still want comfort and luxury in their jobs. The truth is that statistically the percentage of MEN who die on the job every year is still GROSSLY outweighing the percentage of women (a whopping five percent or something) the TRUTH is that MEN still get seriously injured on the job GROSSLY outweighing the percentage of WOMEN (Again, something like a whopping five percent) and what do men get in return? WHOO HOOO a whopping STAGGERING 30 cents more an hour or something and that is ONLY in some cases.
Feminism is revolting and ruining our country, and our freedoms, and our lives.
@Saridactyl - Based on what feminism originally was, yes, it is a total contradiction.
Women demanded respect entirely and in doing so also demanded respect regarding their bodies, and minds as well. Ergo- completely contradicting the very nature and or/idea of porn.
Porn being something used to turn on a man (or a woman) by objectifying another human being = no respect based on what the original thought was.
@LKJSlain - I’m not sure that it’s a total contradiction to the way feminists think. If it were, we would all think the same way, which is what part of my comment addressed.
@LKJSlain - So, I’m revolting and barf worthy?
You’re talking about feminism generalizing people? Look what you just did. You just said that feminists are revolting and they’re ruining this country. Wow, that’s really awful. Thanks a lot.
@Saridactyl - This is based on years of research and facts, and yes, their generalizations and lies are revolting.
Not you a “PERSON” but I do not stand for what you believe what so ever. The entire movement is based on lies and generalizations.
If you don’t think so, then please, tell me what you believe a feminist is?
@LKJSlain - I said what I think feminism is in my first comment, the one you responded to. I don’t think I need to go into it again.
Also, I am a feminist, you think they are revolting, ergo, you think I’m revolting. My point was that you complain about feminism generalizing, yet you just did the exact same thing.
@Saridactyl - And again… please tell me how women are being oppressed in any way shape or form? And I did it because it is revolting.
Not you, feminism. I wouldn’t take it personally. I’ve had people (such as yourself btw) tell me that Christianity is revolting, however, I still have friends who think that.
@LKJSlain - I’m more interested in addressing your name calling. You know, revolting and all.
Would you like to point me to where I have told you that Christianity is revolting?
@Saridactyl - Please read the above.
@PrisonerxOfxLove -
The fact that gender exists is part of human nature. Making it important is quite a leap from there.
After all, eye color exists; people’s irises come in different shades. Does that mean we are justified in discriminating against blue-eyed people?
@LKJSlain -
Most of those job-related deaths are in low-paying industries like factory work, coal mining, and the military. (It is still unfair, but for different reasons than what you’re suggesting.)
Hence, though alas it is a meme: Your argument is invalid.
Men get paid more, and men bear more risk—but it is not the same men who bear more risk (e.g. soldiers) who are getting paid more (e.g. corporate executives).
@QuantumStorm -
My understanding is that those sorts of calculations reduce but do not eliminate the wage gap between men and women. Also, a lot of those differences are obviously a result of sexism: Why nurses and dental hygienists almost all women, while doctors and dentists are mostly men? The skill sets are basically the same, but one job has a lot more pay and prestige—and it’s the male version.
@Saridactyl -
I have no problem saying that Christianity is revolting. It’s a cruel, delusional, irrational, anachronistic worldview that is an embarrassment to the potential of the human brain.
@Saridactyl -
I already addressed the argument that any belief has extremists. No, this is just false. There is no such thing as an extremist physicist or an extremist ecologist.
Feminism should be like that. It should be about actual facts, and it should exclude anyone who doesn’t tie their views to the actual facts.
@pnrj - No, it’s still what I said it was.
They are more willing to work jobs that are uncomfortable, less sanitary, and willing to take on more hours.
@pnrj - Gender is not eye or hair color. Any man can have a variety of hair or eye colors and is still a man. Likewise, a woman is still a woman no matter her hair or eye color.
Human nature is male and female. That means that there is equality of rights between male and female based on human nature, not gender.
That is a completely different argument from the feminist argument which is based on the lie that gender does not matter.
@LKJSlain -
Women are less willing to take on jobs that are less sanitary? Did you actually try to argue that? Have you not heard of nurses and dental hygienists? These are two of the least sanitary jobs on the planet (up there with sewage workers and radioactive waste handlers), and they are 95% women. Clearly being sanitary hasn’t got a thing to do with it.
I already answered the point about “more hours”: Yes, men work more hours, but no, that doesn’t account for the whole wage differential. It does account for some of it, but after partialing it out, still a significant gap remains.
I thought you might try to argue skill level, because that’s another one that is correlated but insufficient. One might fairly think that more men are neurosurgeons because they are more skilled. But then you need to explain why even factory workers and unskilled laborers still show a wage gap between men and women. You’d also need to explain why men and women within the same field are paid differently, even in female-dominated fields like clerical work and nursing.
Sexism explains these phenomena very easily: Because there is a stigma attached to being a male nurse or a male secretary, wages are hiked up to compensate (basic supply and demand). This “stigma premium” is applied to men in feminine professions and not to women in masculine professions, again, because of more sexism: Employers don’t want to pay women more because they don’t value women as much. Additionally, male workers may feel their masculinity threatened if their female colleagues make more than them.
@PrisonerxOfxLove -
I don’t know of any feminists who argue that gender doesn’t matter at all, so this seems like a strawman.
Indeed, a lot of feminists, and particularly a lot of people like me who may technically be “feminists” but are uncomfortable associating with more radical feminism, say precisely that equality is about a shared human nature. This is also one of the oldest traditions in feminism, going back all the way to Mary Wollstonecraft.
Indeed, there is a popular third-wave feminist slogan: “Feminism is the radical idea that women are people.”
@pnrj - Women as combat soldiers and policemen are just two issues that demonstrate the gender issue.
If I were a cop, I’d want a 6’5″ mean as hell male officer at my side, not a smaller, more vulnerable woman.
Same with a combat infantryman.
Standards had to be lowered so that women could be included.
@pnrj - I’m not REFERRING to jobs of that sort, I’m referring to “OVER ALL” … Dentists and doctors (who are still vastly MEN btw) make up like .05 percent of the job market.
Honestly, don’t bother arguing it with me… just go and research it for yourself, from someone who is NOT a feminist and has an agenda.
Have a nice day.
@PrisonerxOfxLove -
For beat duty and infantry? That makes some sense. Sometimes you need physical strength, and human sexual dimorphism makes men physically stronger.
But what about all the inevitable paperwork that comes with police work? What about piloting remote-controlled drones? Women could do these things just as well as men, and yet, aren’t generally hired for that purpose.
And again, it dodges the issue of dentists vs. dental hygienists, nurses vs. doctors—where the women’s version of the job is mostly the same work but for far less pay and prestige.
@pnrj - The issue of women getting less pay for the same job as men has been proven to be another leftist hoax like global warming.
For the same job, the same amount of hours worked etc., women get paid the same as men.
Regarding the types of work women may or may not do, you are advocating discrimination. Discrimination even if for the good reasons you cite, is anathema to feminists.