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Original: 11/3/2009 8:07 PM
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Tuesday, November 03, 2009

CFI hosted a speaker tonight.

 First, it proved that the local chapter of the Center For Inquiry has odd taste in events---why a political scientist to dissect New Atheism, and a miniscule promotion campaign that only attracted CFI members and a few from the SSA?

Second, it reprised much about what I despise about criticism of the New Atheists. "You're too angry! You're too strident! Why can't you be nicer?" The speaker even began by accusing the New Atheists of being the "New Dogmatists"---he in fact proceeded to use the word "dogmatic" to describe at least three separate phenomena: first, angry dismissal of obviously false beliefs ("New Dogmatists"), second, strongly held belief without sufficient evidence (the usual definition), and third, violent militancy for ideological causes (Marxist, Islamist, Maoist dogma; what we'd usually call "fanaticism"). The third is obviously terrible, and the whole point of the New Atheists is to point out that the second is almost as bad; but to then place us in the same category, simply because we're a little "aggressive"? This is an inversion of morality that rightly angered me.

But speaking of my anger, Ewan pointed out to me that I may have become too angry in the discussion. My raised voice (though I note I never used profanity, name-calling, or really anything but logical argument delivered with vocal emphasis) may have been off-putting to some, in this case and perhaps in others as well. For all the absurdity of comparing Richard Dawkins to a suicide bomber, there was a kernel of truth in the speaker's argument---namely that perhaps our anger, however justified, might be hurting our ability to persuade. In my own case I know I anger easily when faced with foolishness, and I think this probably describes the "stridence" of Dawkins and Hitchens as well.

It's not that I get angry at those who disagree with me: Propose a competing theory of the Hard Problem, or disagree about the best approach for resolving global warming, or even debate with me about the proper time in gestation to allow abortion, and I will be civil and rational. But try to claim that there is an invisible immortal soul, or that global warming is a myth, or that zygotes deserve full human rights, and yes, I'll raise my voice at you. Some ideas are just wrong, and like Dawkins and Harris and Hitchens, I am sick of stupid ideas being respected and considered on equal terms with obvious facts.

On the other hand, it may not be working. Perhaps a calmer approach would be better. Then again, when have calm logical arguments changed history? Maybe outrage is precisely the proper response, both in principle and in practice.

I certainly don't see a lot of evidence to the contrary.


 Posted 11/3/2009 8:07 PM - 25 Views - 2 eProps - 3 comments

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Reasonable men do not change the world.
Posted 11/9/2009 12:36 PM by llewelly - reply

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@llewelly - 



But if reasonable men agree the world needs changed... is it then most reasonable to be unreasonable?
Posted 11/9/2009 4:28 PM by pnrj Xanga True Member - reply

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What if global warming were a myth, and you were being lied to by the very people who have presented manufactured, curtailed or otherwise constructed 'evidence' to teach you about global warming?



The other two problems you refuse to debate are opinions, not provable in fact given our current scientific standards. Hence hypotheticals about them would probably prove useless to science. But global warming at least constitutes an event which can be examined from a scientific and historical perspective, and as such many scientists happen to disagree with the popular consensus on the issue. At least some of the hype has proven a useful fraud; "global warming" is now an issue that can drive corporations that aren't "green" enough out of business, or perhaps even condemn people who aren't real energy savers. Eventually, if the policies that currently allow such things were to be expanded, they would prove a good pretext for dismantling much of the current first world countries, given our living situation: what better way to kill off our environmental problems than to kill off their source, the human population?



Just summarizing a hypothetical that's been proposed before.



Scientific minds don't exist only to examine facts. They also examine all the potential conclusions that lie between the facts and outside of them, in a logical fashion. And yet they retain a neutrality (lack of belief or disbelief) about practically everything except the one undeniable fact that the mind exists. The person who questions that creates a paradox which makes sentient life pointless.

Posted 11/14/2009 1:12 PM by Lord_Wu - reply


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